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New taper--too fast?

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freesia View Drop Down
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  Quote freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New taper--too fast?
    Posted: 07 September 2011 at 1:44pm
Hi, I feel like I keep asking the same questions over and over--I hope not! I wonder if anyone can give me some insight on tapering.

 I was on 6mg/day of pred for a long time, maybe 6 months or more. I dropped to 5.5 mg 2-1/2 weeks ago. That went fine. I decided to try doing what the rheumy told me--taper by .5 mg every two weeks, if possible. So I dropped down to 5 mg daily  5 days ago.

Yesterday(the 4th day of the new taper) I felt really tired and I hadn't done anything abnormal. Well--I did go to watercolor class and the only strenuous thing about that was carrying a tote bag of supplies, etc. I felt okay at the time but did have lower back pain later on (that isn't PMR, it's osteoarthritis).  I did my regular exercise in the morning which is riding a stationary bike. My knees are doing really well, still not 100%, but recovering really well.  I still can't put any tension on the bike for very long, but anyway I can freewheel it. Smile

I went to bed early because of feeling tired, and slept pretty well--I was possibly a little stiffer than normal in the morning. I notice I'm getting more PMR shoulder pain than I ever had before, but that's been going on for awhile.

Anyone who's tapered to this level, do you remember if you felt sort of "funny" at first.  Maybe feeling funny is part of getting used to less prednisone.  I'm a little worried that I might be backsliding into a flare since my symptoms are getting slightly worse.  I don't know why I am trying to taper the way the rheumy said to--I feel like the Ragnar, Celtic, mrs UK and others' methods are better.

I'm wondering if I should just keep going and see what happens or go back up to 5.5 mg before I get into a flare? Geesh! How does anyone ever know what to do???Confused

Next Monday I'm having blood tests ordered by my primary care doctor. One of the tests is CRP, so maybe that will help determine where I stand. Thank heavens for her, following up the way she does, every month.

freesia






Edited by freesia - 07 September 2011 at 1:58pm
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mrs UK View Drop Down
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  Quote mrs UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2011 at 3:02pm
Freesia

When taking a drop, however small, give it five or six days as withdrawal symptoms can kick in.   If after that five or six days, go back up to where you were comfortable and start all over again.    My Rheumy recommended once down to 5mg, that a drop of 1 mg every three months was best.

 It really is a case of seeing what works for you.

What I do know, is that I have had to come down much slower than even my Rheumy recommended   - horses for corses I suppose.

Good Luck and do not get disheartened.


Mrs UK
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  Quote freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2011 at 4:31pm
Thanks, mrs UK ! I'll give it a few more days.  I'll just play it by ear and try not to get stressed out by the rheumy's ideas. LOL

freesia



Edited by freesia - 07 September 2011 at 4:31pm
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  Quote Celtic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2011 at 1:02am
Freesia
 
Yes, as MrsUK says - 3 months on each dose below 5mg.  In my case also, I have occasionally taken much longer, for instance about 9 months on 1mg!  Stay positive, you wil get here too.  Now whether I ever get from half a mg to zero...........!Ermm
Pearl
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  Quote freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2011 at 1:12pm
Nanatjjj, Thanks for your support.  Decreasing the pred is very tricky because it feels like  a little cushion of relief has been removed.  It's like there's a little extra stiffness but maybe it will go away so you just have to hang in there unless you start feeling horrendous. You're so right that even good rheumies can't predict how our bodies will react or if we will take a nosedive.  My CRP levels have pretty much coincided with how I feel, so for me I think they are sort of accurate. I don't totally rely on them, though. I'm glad you got off the Tramadol! Thumbs%20Up

Pearl, thanks for your support! I can only imagine what it must feel like to be all the way down to half a mg! It seems like it would be easy to get to zero from there, but I guess not. Nothing is easy with PMR and prednisone.  My old acupuncturist told me that when she was tapering steroids (for allergies...before she was an acupuncturist) when she got down to 1/2 mg and lower, she had to cut the tablets so fine they were in grains and just take little bits. What a powerful medication it is!

Hope you all have a good day.  Hope you have a nice trip, Nanatjjj!

freesia
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  Quote luckycauk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2011 at 1:58pm
Certainly I have felt exactly as you describe at the stage you are at.  For me, the decision  to stay longer at a particular dosage level was determined mainly by my willingness to tolerate that stage. No easy and perhaps not even necessary. Rather increase or decrease the prednisone, the third option is to say longer at a level. What I discovered was rather than increase the dosage to a previous level was to stay longer at the same dosage when I got around the 5mg level.   As I have decreased the dosage amounts , my body has needed to stay longer at the reduced dosage. What has guided me is the monthly blood test that gives the sed level. If it was within the normal range, 20 or less, I tapered. If not, I stayed the course and stayed at the same level. This may or may not suit anyone else though. My GP was aware of what i wanted to do and supported me.  Within the last week,  I began taking the prednisone first with some breakfast food and an hour later my high blood pressure meds with the rest of my breakfast instead of the other way. I feel so much better but it may be that would be the case anyway. Just cheering you on, sharing observations of my PMR journey and not advising. Wink
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  Quote freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2011 at 8:34am
luckycanuk, thanks for telling about your experience with tapering. That's very helpful !  Do I understand correctly: suppose you get to 5 mg and feel a little rocky, you wouldn't increase back up to 5.5 or 6 mg, you would just stay at 5 for a little longer? 

You know, my rheumy doesn't test the SED rate anymore--only the CRP. I don't know why. I wish she would test both.  The blood tests usually are a good indicator for me --how I'm feeling pretty much coincides with the results.
Smile
Cheers,
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  Quote luckycauk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2011 at 1:55pm
Yes Freesia, that is correct. I got discouraged with the yo-yo or see-saw method of increasing and decreasing prednisone so decided to just stay at the same dosage for another month and see what happened. What happened was that I discovered my body required more time at that level. My sed rate did keep going down without increasing the prednisone and more importantly I eventually felt better too.   It seems the lower I go with prednisone amounts, the longer adjustment period at each dosage level is required. Currently I have had two months at one half mg of prdnisone and only very recently has my energy level improved enough so that I feel like my former self prior to PMR onset.
Oddly,  I am beginning to have some fears about being off prednisone.  I liked going down with prednisone amounts using the slow taper method  but disliked going up! Some PMR people have found that the sed level does not work well for them as an indicator of their PMR journey but my GP does so I go along with it. I have found though that sometimes I feel great but the sed level is above normal. Go figure?
 
There is light at the end of the PMR journey but the journey is not a race. Be safe and careful.   For me, I am grateful that prednisone gives me some good periods of time within the pain and fatique. Some quality time is a lot better than none! Warm hugs to you and everyone else struggling with PMR! Smile 
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  Quote freesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2011 at 6:02pm
So rather than try to use the Ragnar method, for example, you stick with the same dosage for a longer period of time? Maybe there is something to this. I was on 6 mg for so long, I was really ready for my transition to 5.5 mg and it seemed easy.  One thing good about it: there's less to stress over and remember as far as "now what dose do I take today?" Of course, writing it down and consulting the calendar is really no huge problem but it does add a little complication.  Whatever works, I guess!

I wish I'd kept more careful track of my blood levels.  For some reason my rheumy stopped tracking my SED rate and I can't remember why! All she usually gets is my CRP.

I am starting to feel anxious to be "off" prednisone but at the same time I realize I can't rush it! I do feel pretty stiff in the mornings and it makes me wonder if I should be on a higher dose, but I don't feel like I'm going into a flare so I just continue on as is.  I hope at some point I will feel like I used to--normal!

I can sort of understand your fears about being off prednisone. For me it's been like a crutch, or a helper, even though I was scared to take it and hated the side effects. So I might miss it.  I think I may also feel afraid that once I'm off it, maybe GCA will suddenly strike.

Thanks for your help and hugs! Hug
freesia

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  Quote luckycauk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2011 at 2:43am
Yes I use Ragnar's slow taper method. My body really responds well to that.
When I get to the next lower level using the Ragnar method, I stay at that level, if my sed rate is elevated beyond normal range, for an additional month. Always the sed rate has gotten back into the normal range with that extra month of the same dosage level.   
To get to 5 mg prednisone level, I tapered by one mg per month using Ragnar's slow taper. At the 3 mg stage I started to taper by one half mg per month. If the taper using Ragnar method was successful according to my sed rate, I would again decrease. In the past two years and two months that I have had PMR, four times I had to stay one  additional month at a level. Never more than that. This was a nice discovery that I made after one year and a half on prednsione when I was at lower dosages level. Has any one else done this with success?
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