I HATE THE BUSH’S... | Arthritis Information

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Enter at your own risk!!!!! This thread can be quite brutal at times!

It was started due to another thread beginning to be contaminated with political opinons (Bush bashing).

I had suggested to open a thread called "I Hate the Bush's," and do your thing. I went one step further and created it for them.

Blessed39212.9453935185I happen to love the Bush's. I think President Bush has done a great job cleaning up the mess that President Hillary (oops, I mean Bill) Clinton left behind.   

Yeah, Bush has cleaned up a whole lot. (sarcasm, in case you didn't notice it.) I was doing a lot better when Clinton was in office, and nobody better say that was thanks to Reagan and Bush Sr. cuz I don't buy that for a second.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and that is mine.

an unwanted shrub is a thorn in everyone's side. Google "bush video" or just visit YouTube and do the same. Pay special attention to the video's of his responses from 10-15 years ago and those of today. I suspect many will find the comparison interesting or scary as the case may be.

BTW, funny I was not a Billary fan but to be honest I was better off after that era then the current era. Bill was fine it was "her" husband that was/is the problem. Gotta love Billy-boy though. Dude is out everywhere with his current girlfriend from Canookia while his husband campaigns...better than a soap for sure.

;)

BreckLundin39202.5511805556 Well...I did vote for Bush. You have to vote for the lesser of two evils and that was my choice. Be it wrong or right. I DO NOT agree with all the things he has done but, I will still support my president, even if it was Gore! I just don't get how some people can blame every bad thing on ONE person.

That being said...I vote the person, not the party! Face it, they all have their own agendas, and none can be trusted!!! Like I said...you have to vote for the lesser of the two evils.

Wonder what wonderful choices we'll have the next go around!! Blessed39212.9457291667 For the most part, I don't think people are blaming EVERYTHING on ONE person. But when you are considered the Leader of the Free World and the Commander in Chief, you have to expect to be held accountable. They know this.funny how it is always, and I mean ALWAYS the man's fault when he wanders. What??? she had no idea who he was and what he was when she married him? Or people seem to assume she is the perfect wife...life is far too short to judge the way other choose to live their life. And for those of a religious bent I seem to recall that somewhere in your user's manual you are specifically told it is not your job to judge others but rather to love them and help them.

lorster:

now you get it!! what you are reading in Hillary is that she is the one with issues...she wants and has wanted to be "the boss" at ANY COST. I do not place blame on either of them beyond it is STRANGE to say the least. (actually I feel badly for Chelsea...no child should have these two as parents, though I had worse). And there are MILLIONS of women who marry simply to have access to money, influence and/or status. These women then become bored/frustrated with their unfulfilled lives. Eventually they begin to seek ways to force/exert themselves into the lives of others just so they feel in control of something. Hillary has taken that to an whole new level...and it could have scary bad results.



BreckLundin39202.5839351852I do agree that both of them should not be judged for this by outsiders that don't really know the whole story. I believe she probably knew exactly what he was before they got married. She stayed with him for whatever reason and nobody can assume they know what that reason is. I divorced a cheating husband but some people believe divorce is wrong. Am I supposed to go by what everyone else thinks or trust myself to make the decisions that are right for me. I actually respect her a little for standing there and saying I'm sticking even though everyone was telling her to leave! Maybe Bill and Hilary have some agreement or something like that.  They sure are public about it.  I don't hate Bush but I don't exactly like some of his policies either.  I just wish the troops would come home and someone would do something about the state of health care in the nation.  I will always support my president, country, and troops. 

I just watched Dennis Kucinich on Bill Maher the other night and really liked him.  He had some good policies.  And nice kind eyes and smile. 

I can't help but observe that people on this thread seemed preoccupied about Bill lying to Hillary, but no one seems overly concerned that Bush lied to his people and the world.
NO ONE DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED.
I don't mean to sound ignorant or anything but is it the government's fault about the high cost of drugs/healthcare or the drug companies? I mean, my little syringe of Enbrel is what? A tablespoonful? And it's 0? I understand they "say" that the money is for research but my goodness! They are taking in BILLIONS I'd bet. Really, I don't mean to sound ignorant - although I know some people here already are thinking that. Explain to me please. Gimpy- go-go smoke somemore dope-dope!  Blessed39212.9462962963I am still waiting for Monica to confirm Paula's bent d*ck allegations.I'm with you Honey. Was it Lisa Schiffren?  Dan Quales former speech writer?  I couldn't make sense out of anything she was saying.  Jamie Tarabay was the woman in the middle.  She is the journalist that lives in Baghdad and reports for NPR. 

Bill Maher and the rest of the panel had problems making sense out of some of the stuff she was saying too lol.  We were not the only ones. 

It is partly the government on why our meds are so dang expensive.  These big pharmaceutical companies have to lobby a lot of times for research money and research grants.  Lobbying involves politicians.  The big drug companies need money from the government to help pay for research.  All the money does not come from the little guy who has to purchase these incredibly expensive drugs.  I also feel that the CEO's etc. of the drug companies and the insurance companies want to line their pockets with green.  To me, it is all one big huge monopoly tied in together...drug companies and insurnace companies. 

As far as the president in office goes whether it is Bush or someone else coming up in the next election, it doesn't really matter.  I have always felt that these guys have agendas of their own to follow.  Yes, I believe Bush is all about the oil.  I just wish there was another way he could have gone about this.  I do feel lied to about the war in Iraq.  I do want our troops home.  I do want national health care.  I do want to be able to afford meds for both me and Danielle.  Without Bush and his No Child Left Behind Act, I would not have the 504 Plan protection that Danielle needs for school.  So there is good with the not so good. 

When Mr. Bill got busted for not being able to keep it zipped, my first thought was...if he cheats on his wife...does he cheat on his country?  How can I trust this guy now since he has shown this dishonesty. 

For me, it is not about political party affiliation.  It is about the individual person and what they say and propose they can do for the working guy.  Middle America is slowly fading away. 

i knew this would be contraversial! i saw bill Maher, and agree on the woman on the right, was strange, and the woman in the middle, the reporter working in Iraq was great!
You here so many views on this, that the past prez was weak on military spending, so most military people ..might support our current commander. or there was info, that wasn't followed upon on someone's watch, leading to our tragedy of 9/11, or didn't someone report it, about people learning flying lessons, and not completing the courses?
My son is in the Army, but i would say that, i hate to see the country so divided over this, didn't vote for him, Mr Gore was everything to me...but we blasted the hell out of that country, and made these divisions of basically 3 kinds of people there, tore it up, and now we got to get it controlled, but can we ever? who will get the profit of that oil there? So, i just don't see how we can pull out fast, will we ever see the day, when we just need peace keepers, like in Bosnia, now?? i doubt it..
I will vote for either party, a swing voter, to the man i see as the best...but there is a big mess in New Orleans, and Humira/Enbrel, are 00 a month...and my co-pyt is high! ..we have lots of work to do in this country, also....and tell an Australian friend, that we are the leader of the free world, they will not like that.. If it is of any comfort to you all in America politicians are the same the world over - they get into power and then all their ideals fly out the window.
I wonder about the United Nations which has so much corruption and was formed supposedly to protect countries from dictators and aggressors - they do very little, in fact they are quite useless.
Interesting thread & I know this is shallow but is Bill Clinton still at it....... [QUOTE=Cassandra]If it is of any comfort to you all in America politicians are the same the world over - they get into power and then all their ideals fly out the window.
I wonder about the United Nations which has so much corruption and was formed supposedly to protect countries from dictators and aggressors - they do very little, in fact they are quite useless.
Interesting thread & I know this is shallow but is Bill Clinton still at it.......[/QUOTE]

You're right Cassandra...the United Nations are as worthless as tits on a nun! Forgive my language, PLEASE! You want to get me worked up...that'll do it. Forget about if you're dem or rep. I'm tired of us having to be everyones big brother! I say Close the borders, bring the soldiers home as soon as possible, and tell them all to sink or swim!!!

No matter what the US does it is NEVER good enough. The UN does not follow the guidelines that were set forth. I'm suprised they even have chairs in their meetings...they can not possibly sit in them. With out a spine you would surely slither away like the snake you are!!!!!

Don't EVEN get me started!!! I love Bill Maher too and have been watching him for years. 

We have burned many bridges in the United Nations and pretty much can not count on it doing anything America asks it to do.  It is politicized now and has all that corruption is it really worth it?  I'm not really sure.  Opinions? 

Yeah, according to the tabloids Mr. Bill is still not keeping it zipped.  Some guys...never change in that respect.  I just couldn't sleep with him.  I feel he parades these women around like trophies and that is just so wrong on so many levels.  And the women allow it!!!  Which is also just so wrong on so many levels. 

i doubt he is still at it, and he had major heart surgery...but does he have blood on his hands?
he is not going to do anything, with his wife running..
   Yes Kucinich made the most sense, but he won't get in there...won the debate in SC, too
I don't trust politicians anymore, and this is common, they will say what you want to hear
   even Nancy reagan and son, pleaded for stem cell research, is the moral majority the right? i think we are basically hard working people, and it's the middle class that will get stomped on..
     just makes politics give you a dirty taste As much as I would love Kucinich to get that ticket he is not going to.  He is too NICE!!!!  And what he said made SENSE!!!  Healthy eating to help curb medical problems and high cost of medical care and insurance. He didn't even say healthy eating was a cure all.  Just that it helps.  He is going to start in the schools with that.  All of us with kids know what our kids lunch menus are like.  YUK!  I just saw Super Size me where they talked about that and how much these companies make off of the schools.  It was jaw dropping.  Plus the schools can save money by the way the lunches are prepared.  Decriminalize marijuana.  Get rid of mandatory jail time for marijuana users.  C'mon...when was the last time a stoned person went on a killing rampage because they smoked too much pot lol.  Smoke too much and ya fall asleep!!  Health care reform...nationwide health care for everyone.  he didn't say too much about immigration tho if anything.  If he did please remind me cuz ya know...brain fog.    Yeah I know.  I think marijuana crimes are a waste of prison space too.  Fill those spaces up with pedophiles.  It's just stupid as far as I'm concerned.  So many medicinal uses.  So many stupid politicians keeping us feeling cruddy when all it takes would be to have a couple of hits and feel better.  It's a natural plant for crying out loud.  Kucinich was the mayor of Cleveland, OH in the 70's, during which time Cleveland went bankrupt. There was a recall election to get him out of office but he survived it.

Just a little more information for you. Thanks for the info but that for me is the past.  People hopefully learn from their mistakes. I still liked what he had to say.  He prolly will not get the ticket anyways.  Not enough support.  I was born in Cleveland lol.  I'd like to start this post by saying most Americans I know personally
couldn't be nicer or more warm hearted. Now I'll try to be as
inoffensive as I can without subverting my meaning. I think America is
getting different news than the rest of the world. You'd be very hard
pressed to find a fan of the Bush administation outside of America, and
it's alarming that Americans are going around with blinders on, afraid
to discuss any issue that's actually relevant to the state of the world
today. People would be well served to re-read 1984 or watch the
documentary Mein Kampf to begin to get a handle on what's happening
to you and your country. As for loyalty to the "President". HE WAS NEVER
ELECTED SO HE'S NOT YOUR PRESIDIENT. No one even makes any
pretense any more that the 2000 election wasn't rigged. There was a coup
in America and you just let it happen! TWICE. If you value freedom so
much, why not start using your own and having some intelligent open
discussions about the issues. No one is making any pretense there were
ever any WMDs in Iraq. No one has brought them any "freedom" or
"democracy". Why is America there? Here's an interesting letter from a
soldier who was there:
http://
www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/309485032.html


I think the people of America have the best intentions and the leaders
of America have the worst, and they're able to bamboozle the people
with 9/11 and a bunch of good sounding rhetoric to commit heinous
acts.
Look at what happened in Guantanamo Bay! Not only that, but I don't
think I've ever seen such a corrupt administation as the Bushes'. 
I don't even follow US news that much and I'm aware of multiple horror
stories and scandals coming from the WH.

The rest of the world is not as helpless and cluesless as some would like
to think. No one would be more grateful than the
whole rest of the world if the US stopped trying to be "Big Brother" to
everyone else.

As for the cost of healthcare, try a little socialism. The cost isn't
mostly from "research", it's from advertising and profit. Many
countries are able to take care of their people at a fraction of the
cost of what is spent on healthcare in the US. The people of Africa
wouldn't need so many handouts if generic drugs were available and
their land wasn't being used to grow cash crops for the rich countries
of the west.

This is an endless topic and one I usually avoid with any American
because they either get totally freaked out or take it really
personally, but the world is at stake here people!


Anyway, you can dismiss what I'm saying by calling me a dopehead or
whatever, and I won't answer because I come here, after all,
for RA support, not politics, but I post this post because I wish
Americans, who are individually lovely people, would speak up a bit
more, because the rest of the world is really rather agitated at you.
What is your democracy if you're too afraid to engage in it?


Gimpy-a-gogo39203.583275463 Like I said...no matter what the US does, it's never good enough.

Gimpy-we'll have to agree to disagree! Why don't you take care of your backyard, and we'll take care of ours. Have a nice day!  Blessed39212.9470023148 Lorster,
This was well written...My son has worked his butt off for the Army for 5 1/2 years...and has gotten that from the Europeans
I am in total agreement with you, and to call me a liberal or a leftist, when my son has sacrificed so much, to be an Officer! My point, is, every military person is very religous, when they are in danger, in a foxhole, but you would be shocked, how many of them, want the commander out, and agree with this, but they don't speak up..we all know, and respect what each of them have done, and sacrificed and love our country very much..Because we have seen the intense training, and we know what they have to do, to become a military person, whatever branch of service, male or female. Thank God, there is no draft, as our children, have given their blood, but for our freedom? Afghanistan, maybe...but i will say no more, because this is an arthitis board, and there are differances of opinion, we have the right to free speech..if you were in a Communist country, they would haul your butt to jail. Let's all appreciate our military people, sorry if i offend anyone..AND MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA

Danny and I saw this coming a long time ago.  I believed when all this started it was about oil and continues to be about oil.  We have always believed Bush has had his own agenda, but because it is the American way, it has been pounded into my head from the time I was little to support and honor the President.  I'm sorry but I do believe it is all about lining the pockets of the rich by taking from the poor and the middle class (which is slowly fading away).  The rich get the tax breaks.  What about us little people that send their themselves (or in my case my husband) out to work 12 hours a day to support their family and insure we get some health care coverage.  I worry every single day that his skilled trade/manufacturing job will go overseas or to Mexico.  We had to leave a climate that was so good for my RA just so we could survive.  I was in remission with no meds!  Companies now want to outsource our health care to third world countries that can barely take care of their own citizens let alone my needs.  There is no way on this earth I will allow anyone to send me there for a knee replacement.

Yes, I support my troops.  They don't want to be in Iraq anymore than I want them to be.  They are doing what they are told by their boss.  And we all know who that is.  I feel this so called war is waste of human life that no freakin politician cares about.  Let's send their kids over there and I bet they would change their minds very quickly.  Watch how fast our troops come home. Through my daughters class we have sent care packages to our troops.  They crave stuff from home.  I can't even fathom the unbearable pain of that knock on the door that your spouse or loved one is dead.  I would be in the loony bin for quite awhile.  It's time to clean up the mess and get the eff out of there.  I can't trust anyone "in charge" of this war since they LIED about the death of many soldiers from friendly fire.  It happens.  Wish it didn't.  Quit trying to cover stuff up because you are embarrassed something failed.  Suck it up and admit your mistakes. 

9/11?  Don't even get me started.  The government knew all along it was going to happen and they effing let it.  Thanks a lot Washington D.C.  Sorry, I feel it happened as an excuse for Bush to get over in Iraq and get his damn precious oil.  Am I happy Saddam is no longer in power and control?  I'm not really sure.  There will just be another dictator just like him doing the same thing.  Only this one is going to be more slick about it. Saddam could have been assinated and the person that the CIA chose to replace him in office right now and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  Osama?  Puhlease.  We are never going to find him.  And when we do, he will have died from his own natural causes.  Are we even looking for him anymore?  The "war" overshadows anything about that. 

My 12 year old can not stand Bush at all.  Her opinion.  But hey, let's take a look at the big picture.  If you have a 12 year old girl that can recite what he has done to hurt the little people, then something is very very wrong here.  She is really up in arms about banning stem cell research.  There are new ways to gather the stem cells that do not involve aborted babies.  But is that researched and looked at?  NO!  It is all about how would the current government in place make money off of it while millions of people suffer with diseases that haqve the possibility of being cured or placed into a med free long term remission.

Yes, I knew about the removal of the habeus corpus.  And they called Bill Clinton slick. 

The corruption in our government from greed makes me sick.  Just exactly how much money is enough freakin money? 

We are hated around the world because we are bullies.  Just bully in and get what we want no matter the cost.  Most of the time that cost is innocent lives.  Haven't people heard you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar?  I really feel that being the leader of the free world has gone to Bush's head.  Speaking of that....where in the world did this guy go to school?  Did he not pay attention in school?  The mistakes he makes when he speaks are down right embarrassing for this entire country. 

I very rarely speak my mind on politics because this really is not the place for it.  But since I can't do anything physical, I'm exercising my brain lately.  It's good to have a debate as long as you keep the personal lattacks out of it and stick to your own opinions and facts.  Heck, this breaks up the monotony of my day and gets me thinking and discussing current events with the kids so they can learn something too.  Like how to debate the right way.  Something good can come of political discussions.  Plus it is very interesting to me to see what other people think about the state of this country.  I may not agree with it, but it sure gets me thinking about things I probably haven't thought of before.  

Some of us are housebound (like me dang it) and this can be very good for us.  We get to feeling so worthless and that no one really wants to hear what we think and feel that this type of debate gives us an outlet for what is going on in our brains!!  Just please, keep it nice!  Otherwise, we are no better than the people and policies we are debating about.   

Grammaskittles, you're right about keeping the debate objective. I editted
my post to remove any personal references, and I extend my apology to
anyone who may have been offended.I love a good political debate. 

Gimpy you just set a very good example for people that may have let their emotions take over for a few minutes.  Hey, it happens.  Politics can be very emotionally charged!  Politics determine the direction of the world we live in and also our personal lives!  That is really great that you did that.  Thank you so much!

As far as what will happen when we pull out.  The two factions will continue fighting and the government leaders are going to have to learn how to handle it and resolve it.  Yes, we are teaching them how to run a democratic government (uhhh not sure we are the greatest example in the world right now lol), but eventually, school has to be out and you have to take what you learn and use it.  Just have to cut those apron strings at some point.  Maybe it will also force us to look at other natural resources for fuel and energy if Bush doesn't get the oil he wants.  Heck...wind power, solar power, all natural and in abundance.  Haven't there been cars developed lately that can run on recycled veggie oil?  It could end up to be a very good thing for our planet if we pull out soon. 

Gimpy, socialism and communism have never made it here. WE are a democratic society. Thank God.

Thank God I don't have to wait to be approved to see a specialist, Thank God I can pick whatever doctor I want and my government doesn't tell me who I can see and when. Thank God I don't have to wait for funding to get my medication. Thank God I can pick my own surgeon and surgery date and my government doesn't. Thank God I don't have a healthcare system like that of Canada and the UK.

And politicians are politicians no matter what country they are from.

I'm thankful for our free and democratic society. And I love it here. I get to pick my doctors and I've never had to wait for medication, I've
never had to be "approved" to see a specialist (I just ask my doctor to
refer me to one and she does, or she suggests I see one and I do) and the government has never dictated my health care. I have the option to pay out of pocket if I want a procedure or test that is not covered under the Canada Health Act or recommended by my doctor, and I can pay to see an "alternative" health care practioner such as a homeopath if I choose to. So I'm not sure where you get your mis-information (or
propaganda, as the case may be). Our universal health care is something most Canadians are proud of, and preserving it is a major issue with most people here.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you do have public education, and that is socialist. Some people seem to have a knee jerk reaction when the word "socialist" is used, confuse it with communism, and tend discount successful socialist societies such as the one Sweden has, or not recongnise the components of your own society that are run on socialist principles (education, garbage removal, waterworks, road building and maintainance---most infrastucture, really---farming subsidies, etc). Actually, democratic socialism, which is government by the people, is much more democratic than democratic capitalism, which is essentially government by the wealthy. I'm not a proponent of full on socialism by any means (I think a mix or constant tug of war between the two is healthy), but I think socialised medicine can really help a society as a whole.

It's disappointing that you're proud that you have a medical system which lets the less fortunate than you suffer. I'm not sure what kind of a person you are, but I guess you sleep at night.

I'm not so sure you're "free" either. Some Americans seem pretty timid about expressing any kind of opinion these days.The fact that you are using an alias to make your post indicates to me that you in fact do not feel comfortable expressing your own convictions, so you are essentially in an oppression of your own making. That's a strange kind of freedom. Gimpy-a-gogo39203.9387384259
Well Gimpy...they say everything is bigger in Texas, and I guess that includes my mouth!! I got everyones tail feathers in an uproar by starting this thread...sorry! Blessed39212.9473611111OMG! And I am just so glad that you are proud of your healthcare system. I'm proud of mine too and while it could use some improvement, I think it's fine. And maybe I am misinformed about Canadian healthcare, I don't live there. I live in the totally free USA. Maybe you are misinformed about the USA; you don't live here. Maybe everything I've read about UK and Canadian heathcare is incorrect. I do know that I prefer our system to yours and I'm entitled to my opinion.

I know the difference between the Socialist and the Communist parties; BOTH of which at various times have been represented on voting ballots and have not stood the test of time in this country.

Our k-12 school system is public, not socialist, socialist would require them to all be the same. Not all schools are created equal here, some are better and some are worse and it is, unfortunately, related to the economic level of the area. However, most communities offer the the option of transferring to a different school with better educational opportunities.

Our waste management, road building, utilities, farming are all private industry. I'm not sure about water and sewer in all the different communities, some are private and some are run by the local city/county governments and by no means are socialist.

Where are you getting your information from?

I don't think Americans are timid in expressing themselves. I think we know what we have here and it's what many in other countries dream about. We are blessed to live in this great country.

And if you don't like America, don't come here. And don't bother with this AMERICAN website. Isn't there a Canadian one you can use?

I am who I am, there is no alias here. Former lurker who has an opinion to express.

Oh and capitalism is a great! Anyone can do or become whatever they want. If you don't like your economic standing, you can always do something about it in a society based on democratic capitalism.

And if you don't like it, you can leave and go live somewhere else. Now that's freedom. You seem kind of angry. Lorster, yes our system is great. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved all healthcare systems in this world could be improved. All countries struggle with healthcare and not everyones needs are met in other countries either.

We are free here to have union strikes. And it's the not the insurance companies that change our coverages, it's our employers who change them when new contracts are obtained. We are FREE to go out and get additional coverage or look for another employer who offers better benefits.

And all these uninsured children. Who's fault is that? It's their parents fault. Amost every state has a program that insures children who don't have coverage from their parents. But the parents have to sign them up for it. And there are hospitals in every community who DON'T turn those unable to pay away, they treat them.

But maybe you, Lorster, see a different America than I do.

I'm blessed to live here and proud too. Good thing you don't live in Cuba or Russia, Lorster, because they'd drag you away in the middle of the night if you spoke poorly about your country there. But here you are entitled to your opinion and you are FREE to express it. Aren't you lucky? SICKOFDRAMA39203.9575694444Gimpy, I'm not angry. I'm appalled that someone who doesn't live in this country would verbally attack it like you have. You don't live here and therefore cannot realize what this country is about. You may visit and have American friends but you really don't know what it is like to live in this country and be an American.I love bushes too!!!  When I stare at them, they start swaying and sometimes they make funny sounds at me.  One time I jumped chest first into a giant chamisa and just layed there for awhile.  Golly, bushes make me feel all foamy inside, thanks for the great topic!!! ^^Tinker - loved your comment!
I would like to reiterate my previous comments re the United Nations.   There is anti American feeling in the rest of the world by some people re the war - I am unsure of the whole issue and can only state my views - indecisive as they are.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and was brought up on how we wouldnt have been here if it hadnt been for the
American boys that saved us from Japanese occupation.
The Japanese had submarines in our waters so it was fairly close. There are numerous stories of what was in store for us if we were invaded so we (some have forgotten them, or the young ones have not heard them but we were so fortunate that America, at the cost of the lives of your young men came to our rescue - our fate was unbelievably frightening if an invasion had taken place - your soldiers also seemingly charmed the young women 'down under' - certainly my mother was eternally grateful! I do wish the United Nations would fulfil its role of the 'world's policeforce' - someone needs to.
I feel this is a religious war but our news comes from many sources around the world and news is often from the perspective of the particular news media.   Someone may disagree with this, if so, would love to hear your debate.   I know I would rather be invaded by America than many other countries for sure.
But I have been vegetarian for nearly 25 years because I hate violence of any kind so I agonise over this war - I think only the future will give us the answer. We are at the crossroads of civilisation as we know it.
Your health system or lack of it is a problem that is worldwide and I would wish for a democratic form of socialism which I see as a basic system of equality for all.   Maybe the problems in the world are caused by greed and the 'me, me' attitude that predominates and only by our own actions and teaching our children will this change, not governments. Britain has a leftwing government and America a rightwing - there seems to be little difference in the way they govern as I understand it - and they are both are in Iraq.
This board has given me a better understanding of many things, what Americans have to put up with regarding their health system seems inhumane at times and I can only hope for a more compassionate system for you and hope that other westernised countries stop trying to win the vote of big business and think of the votes of the ordinary people. It is such a complicated life and I dont think many of us
could solve the war issue but the internal politics regarding America and much of the western world at the moment are shameful and could be solved if the will was present. I am so pleased though that I have been able to meet all of you lovely Americans, when we cure RA we will start on curing the world!

Yes, I do live in a glass house. A very big, pretty one. Thank you.

And your daughter makes 28k a year, at least. Although she may not have a lavish lifestyle she makes ends meet from what you are telling me. And for a young woman that's not too shabby. Alot of people would love to have that kind of income.

Your state obviously hasn't done a very good job with signing doctors and dentists up with their programs. That's too bad. And it's also sad that your state hasn't added another supplemental insurance to bridge the gap between those who need welfare and those who just cannot afford private coverage. Maybe you should go to your state's government and start the conversation about the need for it. Don't just sit back and complain, do something to change it. I know my state has done that just recently.

I'm sorry to hear of your cousin. I appreciate his service to his country. I am saddened that his life was taken from you all. He is a hero.

It sounds like you are angry and need to get it off of your chest. It's best that you get it out of you or it will eat you up inside.      Well said Cassie!!

I have been reading this thread and I am not going to comment on American politics as I dont live there but I have met some wonderful Americans on here.Its a worldwide problem of the people in higher places filling their coffers and the old people suffering from lack of medical needs and basic human rights.The governments talk the talk but never walk the walk.Here in the UK paedophiles and such get away with it but old people who cant afford to pay their bills get sentenced, medical needs are high with little money to fund them but thousands of pounds are spent on flights and lavish dinners for the powers in high places . Things need to go back to basics :good education, medical , poverty.

As I said before I lived in South Africa where the government had it wrong for hundreds of years, I lived through apartheid and it was horrible.I went from the UK to South Africa and was horrified even as a child of 12 that black people couldnt get on my bus or go to school with me, their medical needs were never met, their education was almost non existant and poverty was on every corner.No wonder that the country is so crime ridden now.

Just to clarify, the United States is not a democracy...it's a republic.

This turned out to be a very informative thread. This thread is proof that all stupidity and ignorance in these great United States is not all imported from Canada, much of the ignorance and stupidity here in the United States is actually homegrown as proven on this thread.

LEV

Sickofdrama....my insurance company also changes what is in my insurance policy...not just my husbands company.  They like to mess with my co-pay on meds all the time  >.<   For instance, Advair was just bumped from 25 to 50 bucks since there is no generic for it.  I can get 3 different types of meds at the tier 1 level for the 10 buck co-pay.  At least they are nice enough to send me cheaper suggestions lol.  Until generic zoloft came out last summer, we paid 25 bucks for it.  Then the generic was 10 when it came out.  Now they bumped the non generic to 50 and the generic to 25.  >.<  It seems my meds that do not come in generic i.e. Lyrica, Humira, Lidoderm Patches are either 25 or 50 bucks. 

Some parents incomes are on that fine line of not qualifying for state insurance in some states but they don't make enough money for doc visits and meds.  We are fortunate in our state that no child goes without insurance no matter what your income level is.  Sometimes there is a small co-pay for our state insurance for kids depending on the parents income. We are also fortunate that our state cares about pre-natal care and all women qualify for state help with pre-natal care despite income.  There may be a small co-pay for both programs depending on income. It is a matter of income sometimes why kids are uninsured and that is just horrible.  Women in our state also qualify for total free birth control if they can not afford it. 

Where we live, road building is not a public enterprise.  The individual counties take care of that.  So it is not the same everywhere.  Something really needs to be done about education in this country also.  We are way behind other countries with that.  Our test scores are just horrible.  No Child Left Behind has barely made a dent with that.  Thankfully we do have it and it is working to improve our schools.  But it is not doing enough.  The way our school systems are set up is the reason we do not live in Milwaukee itself as the schools suck.  We pay more in rent to live where the schools are better.  It would be a fight to get the accomodations for Danielle that she would need if she went to Milwaukee schools.  Where we live, I have no fight getting what she needs. 

It is awesome to live in a free country.  I will be the first to admit that. No country hasn't made their mistakes with policies and laws that they have.  We really need to take a good hard look at some of the policies we do have in place and make some changes to them as we progress into the future.  Some of the policies just are not keeping up.  There is nothing wrong with trying to improve and it is nothing against America to speak up for those improvements.  I have children and grandchildren that are the future of this country.  I want to do everything possible to ensure that they lead us into the future in a smart positive manner.  And that means some policy changes and some policy changes NOW before it is too late. 

I think it speaks volumes that this thread was started because someone
mentioned on another thread that Jeb Bush was partially responsible for the
deplorable health care they were receiving, and someone else was of the
opinion that politics had no place in a health care discussion (?!). Now the
thread about the Bushes has morphed into a discussion on health care.
Could it be that the two are not separate discussions, but actually
integral
to each other?Gimpy-a-gogo39204.413287037PS: Blessed, I'm enjoying this thread as well. There's some constructive
discusssion on it!Gimmpy.......Why were there so many Canadians at the Mayo Clinic when I was there. They ( OK I only spoke to 2 ) said they were fed up with the Health care up there???? One family had an 8 year old daughter with JRA that was disgusted with Health care there??? As far as President Bush is concerned.God Bless him and Homeland security !!! 6t5friane, I guess they were fed up with how the government was
dictating their healthcare, forcing them to see incompetent doctors,
making them fill out 8 forms for an aspirin, all having to wear the same
shapeless grey jumpsuits as they went monotonously from one exact
building to another, where all doctors made the same prognosis' using
the exact same intonatioons and phrases. If they dare comment or
complain, at night, while they slept, Canadian paratroopers would storm
their hospital room and imprison them in Guantanamo Bay without
charge or trial. The ones that remained in Canada soon had to line up 18
hours for their breakfast of bread and water! Those that escaped to
America found gold lined hospitals with cures for RA and people happy
and dancing in the street. Everything was perfect and they lived happily
ever after.

That's the only explaination I can think of. Thanks for pointing that out to
me. I had no idea I was suffering like this! Gimpy, I was just pointing out that you make Canada sound like the the Holy Grail of Medicine. Some of your fellow countrymen apparently feel different then you. BTW you sound rather disturbed with perhaps a big chip on your shoulder for some reason. If you are trying to be funny or sarcastic your not suceeding Here's a great radio station for all you left wing communist Bush
critisizing
hippies:

http://www.airamerica.com/

While some people call this station "left wing" it's important to note that
the reporting is meticulously true (unlike some major broadcasting
news---FOX!--not to name names). They never report anything they
can't prove in multiple ways, they never report speculation, and they
certainly never fabricate anything (except funny commercials). I
particularly like the Randi Rhodes show!

You can listen online, and some of the radio shows may also be broadcast
from a radio station near you!I had a whole long post here but I decided to delete it because it's pointless.


Do not offer sympathy to the mentally ill. Tell them firmly, "I am not paid to
listen to this drivel. You are a terminal fool."----William S BurroughsGimpy-a-gogo39204.5055439815

[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]6t5friane, I guess they were fed up with how the government was
dictating their healthcare, forcing them to see incompetent doctors,
making them fill out 8 forms for an aspirin, all having to wear the same
shapeless grey jumpsuits as they went monotonously from one exact
building to another, where all doctors made the same prognosis' using
the exact same intonatioons and phrases. If they dare comment or
complain, at night, while they slept, Canadian paratroopers would storm
their hospital room and imprison them in Guantanamo Bay without
charge or trial. The ones that remained in Canada soon had to line up 18
hours for their breakfast of bread and water! Those that escaped to
America found gold lined hospitals with cures for RA and people happy
and dancing in the street. Everything was perfect and they lived happily
ever after.

That's the only explaination I can think of. Thanks for pointing that out to
me. I had no idea I was suffering like this![/QUOTE]

OMG...that had me laughing so hard

 

kelstev39204.5005555556ditto last postGimpy-a-gogo39204.505775463kelstev...teeheeheee!I just think it's funny how Bush says we can't set a timetable to withdraw from Iraq because the generals on the ground in Iraq should be the ones who set the timetable.  This is coming from a president who has consistently ignored the advice of his generals, which caused many generals to speak out and denounce his handling of the war.

Also, how does it "support our troops" to send them off to die in another country that never attacked us, never had WMD's, and never was a threat to us.
OMG    You've smoked too much pot and your brain is fried. You are so funny.

Lorster, you've got the suffering of the world on your shoulders. That's a heavy load to handle. But I will say one thing. Welfare is not because people deserve it or need it. Welfare is to keep the lowest class in check. Imagine if there was no welfare. All the begging in the streets, crime, filth, disease that would be running rampant. That is the true reason there is welfare. It is not that we have big hearts and want to take care of everyone, it's too keep society stable. Every human being does derserve the basic necessities of life but it doesn't always happen that way. But more people are taken care of in this country than in most others.

And as far as the people building a house thats 55,000 square feet, who cares it's their money. They earned it why should they give it to others? To spread it around. Come on, that's rediculous. Why don't we all get together, hold hands and sing Kumbaya.     

WOW! I'm speechless...

Except for the fact that I am irritated that there are some people being SO NASTY to others, when the others are not showing such disrespect. I hope I don't ever know you for real.

grammaskittles you've got some pretty good insurance there. My copays are significantly more than yours.

Hi, Well here goes... first of all I wouldn"t hurt anyones feelings deliberatley for anything so please don"t take offense, this is just my personal feelings and beliefs... Let me say first off that I am  a"fundamental, Bible believing, baptist, ultra conservatist,  in the heart of the "BIBLE belt"  I 've not read   many comments from other christians on the politics and health care issues posted here though I'm sure there  are many. I am very proud to be an American and a christian and will will support our troops in any endeavor our country calls on them to do. We have many social problems  and agendas that need MAJOR reform , healthcare being at the top of the list. That being said and if anyone is still reading... (lol) I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion ( thank God for free Speech) and beliefs, that is what is so great about our country. Any LEGALIZED citizen of the USA has the right to  protest, lobby, write senators or congressmen, and make a voice that will be heard (Cindy Sheehan). I DON"T  think we have the right to sling mud and try to destroy another party because they don't  believe just like me or you. No ONE is all right and no ONE is all wrong.  Jesus Christ is the only ONE  who has ever been PERFECT, SINLESS, and  WITHOUT GUILE...  Our answers to every problem we will ever face is  given in the Bible if we would only believe and trust HIM. Sometimes being in the middle of so much suffering and limitations can make us lose site of something so  important. PRAYER does change things. When you get down to it, that is all we can really count on. Not a man, your DR., and certainly not the government. We CAN  change things and one persons voice CAN be heard by many.

 

AMEN [QUOTE=Redheadtheresa] Just to clarify, the United States is not a democracy...it's a republic.[/QUOTE]


Actually, Redheadtheresa, we are both correct. While the United States is a republic, we are governed by a representative democracy. Whoa, Lorster. I really meant AMEN. I happen to agree with what genesis said. Maybe I should have said Amen, Sister! I am also a bible believing, church going, southern girl.

And to reiterate. I have no alias. I've been reading this board for over 2 years and one day felt like expressing my opinion. I've had RA for several years now.

Like I said, you seem to carry the problems of the world on your shoulder. You take everything in a negative or arguementative way. You need to chill out.

I don't think there are public elections in all states for the electoral college, but I could be wrong. Etiher way, we are a republic that kind of likes the idea of democracy. And most of this country doesn't even know that we are a republic.Was your post meant for me genesis or sickofdrama or both of us? Sorry, for sickofdrama, in reply to his comment about the United States being a republic and a democracy.Sorry too, I meant Lorster. lolHahahahaha...I love it. Let's play chinese telephone. 
Jesus is attributed with saying: "..I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24
[QUOTE=Redheadtheresa] I don't think there are public elections in all states for the electoral college, but I could be wrong. Etiher way, we are a republic that kind of likes the idea of democracy. And most of this country doesn't even know that we are a republic.[/QUOTE]

You are correct Redheadtheresa, in my state the electors are nominated; I know many other states do it differently. And I guess we can agree that democracy is an adjective then? Describing the Republic?

SICKOFDRAMA39204.641712963 [QUOTE=Redheadtheresa] Sorry, for sickofdrama, in reply to his comment about the United States being a republic and a democracy.[/QUOTE]


Sorry but I am a her not a his. Does it really matter what religion anyone is when it seems that some people here share the same goals and views whether they are Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.  It seems we all agree on the important issues here.  Health care and education.  The war....whew...not going there again as I have been there already and please read my posts on it lol.  Me hands do not want to type it all again lol. 

I don't think any system of health care is perfect.  If it was, there wouldn't be as many problems with getting care whether it was national health care paid for by your government or private health care paid by employee/employer or self insured.  I really feel the solution could be a good mix of both.  Not one or the other.  Like basic prevantive care be a national thing.  With basic preventative care, a lot of health problems are prevented so in turn health care costs stay down.  Addiction and rehab counseling be a national thing.  The rate of addiction is high and skyrocketing by the minute.  Maybe also the cost of having a baby covered by mational health care.  Tests provided by national health care.  Do ya know how much a bone scan costs now a days?  I almost fainted when I got my bill!!!  Meds provided by national health care.  Private health insurance for things like surgeries,  broken bones, etc.  Dental nationally provided.  Incentives for more docs to hit the rural areas to provide care there.  Income based medicaid for those that do not have insurance.  Like a small co-pay based on income.  If there is no income then medicaid picks it up.  Requirements with welfare to get a job and get off of welfare.  There are already a ton of job training programs in place that are either federally funded, grant funded, or privately funded. 

Yeah Sickofdrama (man I wish you had a shorter name LOL I don't like anything I can use to shorten it lol), I have pretty decent insurance.  But my husband is also union and it is proven that union employees have a 63% advantage over non union employees of having employee provided insurance and good insurance. 

Here are some interesting little factoids on how our economy is affecting most workers.  4 out of 10 U.S. workers often or always live paycheck to paycheck.  Overall, 41% of workers live paycheck to paycheck.  Women are more likely at 47%.  Men are at 36%.    More than half..58% of the 6.169 surveyed by Harris Polls set a budget each month. 1 in 5 typically spend more than their budget. 

Sorry for this being so long.  I just get on a roll sometimes and these were some of things that had been rolling around in the brain I wanted to share and get opinions on. 

 

That actually sounds like a good plan to me for those that don't use it much especially.I hate bushes too, expecially during the spring when I have to clear out all the dead underbush... it's all good though... without bushes, I would not have a job =) It's a love/hate relationship lol.  I got the point you were making Chile.  It is very true.  Thanks for saving me grammaskittles lol But seriously, bushes make this world go 'round... at three dollars a gallon.

Those of you in Canada, England, and Australia...what are your gas prices? 

Yeah I about fainted when I saw gas was that high.  Sigh.  I wonder if we will be able to afford the drive to camping Memorial Day Weekend.  I am going to hold off on making my reservations where we wanted to go because we might have to camp closer to home. 

Gas in Vancouver was .25/litre today, but if you can get your knee
stronger and hurting less it costs nothing because you can ride your bike
everywhere, and the planet will be happier, too.Shell NZ.  as at 1st May

91 Octane     149.9c ltr
95 Octane     154.9   ltr
Diesel               95.9  ltr

Dontcha just love that .9

In paper on 30th April
Fill up your car today, it will probably cost more tomorrow is the message from the Automobile Association after special promotions clipped six cents a litre off petrol and diesel today.

It's  like that all time - all over the place.  I never know the price of petrol, from one day to another, it's a bit like groceries - ya get what ya gotta get!!

Had to google to find out what the current price is and got 1 May prices from a NZ news site. (as well as that little paper clipping)

It's probably changed already, which way??  Who knows.
And here was me thinking our petrol was expensive because it has to come all the way to the bottom of the world!!  So I guess we're not so badly off after all!!

I don't even remember when gqas was 149.9 here lol.  That is weird that diesel is cheaper for you.  It is more expensive than normal unleaded here.  Weirdness. 

Until policies change, our gas prices will increase or remain at the high price they are now.  I think it just really bugs me because the little people are not being thought about here.  How are minimum wage peeps going to get to work with gas that high?  Or the slowly fading middle class take those great driving vacations? 

Gimpy...I would love it if my husband could ride a bike to work.  But considering weather here changes by the minute, the cold cold winters, and his lunch box and the other crud he takes to work daily, plus me calling him to stop at the 24 walgreens on the way home, and he works 2nd shift, it just would not be feasible for him to do it.

My daughter does take public trnasportation to school and the other one walks and on her good days next year will most likely ride her bike to school.  I don't work so I don't need to worry about transportation lol.  But I did take public transportation to and from work for years. 

As an edit to this post.  My job rewarded people that did public transportation or car pooled. 

grammaskittles39205.227025463

gramma

policies can change all you want and you will never ever see a change in gas prices.  Prices will stay the same or go up until the providers see a substantial change in consumer behavior.  When oil companies find the price point at which they see a big drop in purchases they will then set prices at just below that point.  Forget any hope of ever seeing really cheap gas prices again.  The providers of learned that the consumers will purchase the same amount at higher price points

Its all consumer driven,  govt policy really has very little to do with it.   There is no real consumer driver for more gas efficient products or alternate gas vehicles.  When that hap